Interesting piece over at the Hop Press by the ever excellent Lisa Morrison (one of the contributors to 1001 Beers and better known as the Beer Goddess) on the semantics regarding the naming of what some have dubbed Black IPA — dark beers bearing the piney resiny hop character common to beers of the Northwest (the US that is, not Lancashire). Black IPA, as she rightly says, is oxymoronic. Now I’m all for mixing up styles, pushing the boundaries, moving on from beer perimeters established in the days of the Ark (providing those who lead the way know what they are doing — I always believe you have to be able to brew to style before deciding that all style has to be thrown out of the window, even Picasso probably learnt to draw), but names such as Black IPA are just daft — let’s have golden stouts or even clear beer (hold on didn’t one of the big US combos do that?); no let’s not. Anyway, what Lisa discusses is one name that has emerged to describe this new style — Cascadian Dark Ale. You can read all about the pros and cons here, but I like the sound of it. The name describes the Cascade Mountain Range, it gives a beer an appellation, it gives it a place, a home and a landscape with which we can paint a picture of the beer. And boy doesn’t a beer seem better when it has a home and a place — Bohemian Pils, London Porter, Burton Ale, Franconian Rauchbier, etc, etc. A beer without a home is a wanderer, pacing the streets, buttonholing strangers for sustenance, remembering, always remembering, before they gradually vanish.
If I remember rightly, and I am sure I read this in some venerable tome, didn't pale stouts once exist? I have a feeling there was something to that effect on Zythophile.
ReplyDeleteThere's a nice argument about the name over at this other Oregon blog here:
ReplyDeletehttp://thenewschoolbrewblog.blogspot.com/2010/03/idaho-statesman-on-cda-vs-black-ipa.html
Cascadian Dark Ale sounds more like a beer name than a style, so it doesn't work with me, as Romantic as it may sound. I think that IPA has evolved to the point that it simply stands for a beer which is higher hopped than usual and no longer means India Pale Ale (it's become a noun in its own right, not just an acronym). Sure, most people still know that it means India Pale Ale, but the style has changed enormously and beers ranging from 3.5% to 21%, or even 41%, are labelled as IPA.
ReplyDeletePersonally, I don't mind 'Black IPA' as a style, to me it means a very well-hopped dark beer. Cascadian Dark Ale tells me nothing.
Velky — you’re right, in the opening page of Martyn’s Amber, Gold & Black he makes the point that stout meant strong beer to Georgian brewers and that Barclay Perkins were brewing a pale stout in 1805, so maybe someone will produce a golden stout, but then will it be understood?
ReplyDeleteeric — thanks for that
Mark — I still think it’s a matter of semantics and what works for individuals, black IPA is too glib, too stark, too nothing for me (why not Dark IPA or Stygian IPA — SIPA), while CDA gives the beer a background, especially if it were developed in that area; as for the nebulous understanding of IPA I’m not with you on that one, I think the last couple of decades’ revival of true IPAs has anchored them in the 6-7.5% range (DIPAs/TIPAs/QIPAs are a different matter altogether). The perimeters of beer styles should be forever shifting but there still should be perimeters — otherwise we descend into a world of late 19th century Russian nihilism replete with hop bombs being thrown all over the place.
Bohemian Pils? Surely you mean Světlý Ležák.
ReplyDeleteRon
ReplyDeleteI can only write in English (and maybe a bit of Welsh)
Terms like "Black IPA" are fascinating in the way they reveal the buttons that marketeers can push. It's nothing really to do with the beer at all. IPA has become the house beer of American geeks. Savvy brewers know that anything with IPA in the name is likely to sell better.
ReplyDeleteBe interesting see what happens when IPA goes out of fashion, as it inevitably will.
Pale Lager beer then. It really annoys me when someone from outside a beer culture, with no understanding of it, starts making up their own classifications. In the case of Czech styles, the BJCP wankers got it spectacularly wrong. They missed the dozen or so real Czech styles and instead made up one of their own.
ReplyDeleteDark IPA works better than Black IPA, I agree. There is a starkness to Black, but it's a 'bold' concept in the first place.
ReplyDeleteI agree there should always be perimeters, which is why in the style guidelines there are entries for English IPA, American-style IPA and DIPAs. My point was more that IPA and India Pale Ale have almost lost the semantic connection to each other - both exist, just they are different styles, with IPA much broader than the historic India Pale Ale. Tt's those Americans and their bastardisation of style and language!
Change the word 'descend' to 'ascend' in your final sentence... It doesn't sound all that bad (it sounds like California or maybe Fraserburg)!
'Cascadian' is a nice word indeed. But it does more like a name than a style, I agree. Dark IPA gets my vote.
ReplyDeleteRon isn’t it human nature to classify stuff, a beef and chilly stew becomes chilli con carne, for instance
ReplyDeleteso if I say this is a glass of Pale Lager Beer then I am referring to a Bohemian Pils then? I shall do that from now on. ;-)
Surely the whole Dark/Black IPA is a total misnomer? How can you have a dark pale ale? Wish people would just face the truth that these beers are probably overly hoppy porters, but porter doesn't have the trendiness of IPA as a beer.
ReplyDeleteOK, I'll make up my own classifications for American beer, completely ignoring local customs and conventions, and see how well that goes down on the other side of the Atlantic.
ReplyDeleteTerms like Black IPA say much more about drinkers and their perceptions of themselves and what they drink.
Mark, style guides are for anally-retentive geeks, not for normal drinkers. They are ultimately totally arbitrary and meaningless, at least as interpreted in the USA. The "English IPA" guidelines do, for example, not actually represent IPA's brewed in Britain, but what US geeks think English IPA should be like. Neither does it fit with the two traditional styles of English IPA as exemplified by Greene King IPA and White Shield.
From a brewer's perspective... it was cool to add something a bit weird to our beer portfolio that showcased some powerful, aromatic hops and surrounded it with a dark but not malt flavour-led ale.
ReplyDeleteBut it was with my other hat on, the landlord hat where it got interesting. Our regular dark beer drinkers who dislike "hoppy" brews tried it, enjoyed it and their eyes were opened to the power of the hop. Our regular pale ale drinkers, the ones that only like the hoppy beasts tried it, liked it and are now more open to dark beers.
As a means of beer education I think Black IPA is great. Regardless of the arguments about semantics and juxtaposition and beer styles. This beer got people drinking something that they wouldn't usually drink.
Isn't that a good thing?
Kelly, interesting reactions from your punters.
ReplyDeleteYou should try brewing a Burton. That's dark and can be fairly hoppy. I've a great looking Barclay Perkins KK recipe. Well, several, actually.
It certainly is human nature to classify the world we live in, after all 'things' are only defined by what the 'things' they are not. Everything (object, theory or thought) is classified to some extent, whether in an official context or just in our brains.
ReplyDeleteOn Black IPA, for me it's poor taxonomy and pretty meaningless. But I'm sure it's more sellable than a bitter stout so I see why it works.
PS Cascadian, now that is a good word, makes me thirsty!
I like Black IPA as a name, and would resist Cascadian Dark Ale. Black IPA is a growing style in New Zealand, the notible examples here dont use American hops at all and the Thornbridge Raven (a beer that firmly has its roots in NZ by the way) certainly showed a big New World hop character but not an American one. I think Cascadian Dark Ale ties the style to America and Im not sure thats really desirable or correct.
ReplyDeleteAs for it being oxymoronical well perhaps but just how 'stout' is the worlds leading brand?
ReplyDelete